Interview with Chen Ling, director of the Industrial Development and Environmental Governance Research Center of Tsinghua University: my country has the advantage of digital+low carbonization, and reduces carbon rows of traditional energy enterprises.

How to promote zero carbon manufacturing? Will traditional manufacturing in the transformation trend be eliminated? How to balance economic and social benefits during the transformation process?

On the afternoon of September 13, the release ceremony of the Zero Carbon Manufacturing Forum and the "Industrial Reconstruction in the Zero Carbon Age" was held at Lenovo Group Headquarters. After the meeting, the reporter of "Daily Economic News" exclusively interviewed Chen Ling, an associate professor at the School of Public Management of Tsinghua University and director of the Industrial Development and Environmental Governance Research Center of Tsinghua University, and discussed the above issues.

In Chen Ling's view, after the epidemic, China's economy is the first to restore vitality, and the total energy consumption will still be in the increasing stage. China's "double carbon" work will be carried out under the demand of energy growth. Compared with the traditional information and industrialization background, digital+low -carbonized "new twoization integration" may create a leading advantage for Chinese enterprises to achieve zero -carbon manufacturing, and sound digital infrastructure, rich industrial information and good political and business and businessmen Relations will be a key condition for digital transformation of enterprises.

Chen Ling believes that the process of digitalization of the industry includes three stages: information, intelligence and interconnection. Enterprises that have completed informatization and intelligence may have an advantage in industrial digitalization on the clouds in the future, and take the lead in opening interconnection. In addition, different enterprises and fields should implement different industrial transformation strategies. Traditional energy companies' transformation involves huge asset depreciation, which is extremely high and should not be overwhelmed. At the same time, effectively reducing the high energy consumption of the digital economy itself will be the key to development.

Chen Ling was interviewed by daily economic news reporters. Photo source: Photo by Yang Hui, a internship reporter Yang Hui

Under the new "Two Hua" model, my country has great advantages and opportunities

NBD: What are the disadvantages of zero -carbon manufacturing in the background of the traditional "two -meter integration"? What are the development advantages under the "new twoization integration" of "digital+low carbonization"?

Chen Ling: Traditional "two modernizations" usually refer to industrialization and informatization. At the time of reform and opening up in the 1970s in the 1970s, the dominant paradigm of information technology has been basically determined, such as chip design and manufacturing technology, and the overall situation of manufacturers of core technology has been set. From the perspective of the formulation of international market rules, the international governance systems such as the United Nations, the World Bank, and the WTO after World War II have been established. China's reform and opening up is actually a process of integrating global markets and accepting international rules. Our rapid industrialization is a continuous learning and catching up The process of super, facing the disadvantage of difficulty in overcoming. We have realized the technical technical learning and market size expansion, but in fact, there is no technical overtake or industry leadership, and there are still problems such as "stuck neck" of key core technologies. The paradigm and international system have been written in the 1970s to 1980s.

However, in terms of "new twoization integration", we have a chance for digitalization+low carbonization. From the perspective of technology itself, my country has already opened up the exploration and practice of new energy for a long time, such as new energy vehicles, wind power, and photovoltaic industries. This development is still relatively leading. And China is a large data country. The large population and the data generated by the corporate base are a new type of production and innovation elements. This is a very obvious advantage in my country.

It is necessary to transform these resources and technical advantages into industrial advantages and push laboratory technology to the market, which involves the formulation of market rules. The original pyramid -type international governance mechanism is gradually being replaced by some horizontal and professional multilateral protocols. Under the voluntary market or private regulatory system, it is likely to form a diversified international market governance complex in the future. Therefore, in terms of technology or rules, we are now facing new opportunities. With the development of the integration of the new two, my country's industry has advantages and opportunities.

NBD: What scenarios are more valuable in the digital transformation of enterprises?

Chen Ling: Digital transformation in the future is ubiquitous. In China, we see that the first half of the digitalization is consumer digital from B to C -end. Most applications are targeted at individual consumers, such as Meituan and Baidu. Because the digital services received by each person are homogeneous and can be copied on a large scale.

The second half of the digitalization is in the digitalization of the industry. The difference is that each factory's digital model is different. Not any company can get indifferent industrial digital services after entering the industrial cloud. It has difficulty and opportunities. Difficulties are that different enterprise factories need to customize their own digital solutions, and each digital plan is a decentralized opportunity, so as to connect different industries, factories, and markets through industrial digitalization. Therefore, greater value is not only reflected in a certain scene, but the entire second half of industrial digitalization.

Photo source: Photo Network-400731808

In the early stages of digital transformation of enterprises, more inclusive industrial policy support

NBD: In the process of digital transformation, which types of enterprises have good advantages and foundations? How can different enterprises achieve transformation separately?

Chen Ling: Many manufacturing companies in our country are actually in the waist of development and have not completed digitalization. Digitalization is in stages. The first is informatization. Enterprises have converted the production process into recordable information, such as an ERP system, or the rest of the information system. The second is intelligent, such as production auxiliary decision -making systems. The third is to connect different factories, that is, the interconnection we said, to realize the digital production network of the entire factory and the supply chain.

At present, there are actually many companies in China. The first step in the information has not been completed, and it has not been intelligent and interconnected. Enterprises that have completed informatization and intelligence are the advantages of industrial digitalization on the cloud in the future, and they are the first to start interconnection. Through the derivative network, upstream and downstream companies and suppliers are closely linked. As for the specific transformation method, the different industry transformation strategy is a reference model. From the previous survey data, the low -carbon industry has a variety of organizational advantages. With the low technological innovation capabilities of the enterprise, high -level digital facilities and rich production practice can effectively make up for the above shortcomings; The transformation path is highly dependent on the technical innovation ability and management experience of the enterprise. The common factors of the two types of industries are that rich industrial information and good political and business relations are key conditions for enterprises to realize digital transformation.

NBD: What role should the government play during the digital transformation of the enterprise?

Chen Ling: As far as the government is concerned, first of all, relatively clear support, such as specific policies to promote industrial innovation and development. In fact, it is more important to pay attention to that many (governments) are still more traditional industrial development ideas, and the situation of "neighbors" or "local protectionism" still exists. We saw such cases while we investigated. Some local governments asked enterprises to invest in local investment to give subsidies or other selective preferential policies. We believe that in the future, more inclusive industrial policies are still needed to allow companies to enter a market cycle of the country and even internationally.

Of course, now many industries still need centralized procurement models. Competition may indeed be the most efficient development model, but early government procurement is undoubtedly the first driving force to help the industry build the market. In particular, the cost of sinking in the initial stage of digital deployment of enterprises is very high. It may not be able to deploy infrastructure, such as "cloud" and "tube" in the "cloud tube side". At this time, the government came to purchase and provide some inclusive, and the relative public access model can promote the digital transformation of enterprises.

On the basis of the above, once the data has become an innovative element and production factors, how to flow data resources is critical. The government should establish a relatively fair competitive environment. Not only must the data be circulated, but also on the basis of protecting data security, let private enterprises, innovative enterprises, and unicorn companies enter this digital market, providing innovative innovation Try more innovative ways through service.

In addition, the establishment of a multi -subject digital economic governance model also requires strong government support to guide and encourage enterprises to participate, including the launch of some external market incentives and long -term planning. Although it is difficult to have "universal medicines" in the field of governance, it also needs a clear expectation. The government provides a rough line, and the enterprise flexibly finds this positioning and market in the market space.

High energy consumption, traditional energy companies should not be overwhelmed

NBD: How to view the expansion of digital transformation or the energy rebound effect that will bring?

Chen Ling: Theoretically digitalization can promote energy conservation, efficiency, and emission reduction. However, due to the magnification of scale, energy consumption and carbon emissions may increase. This is the rebound effect. For example, as usual, as usual, it means to save the use of paper. Later, we found that once an electronic printing document appears wrong, it needs to be re -printed. Multiple copies need to be copied, but the paper consumption is increased. The same is true of energy. Digitalization does bring convenience, but because of the improvement of efficiency, it can serve more markets and lead to rapid expansion of production scale.

Although the energy efficiency is improved, the overall energy use has also increased. This rebound effect can actually be called the scale effect. As for how to avoid or decrease, there is actually no need to focus on adjustment. The inherent motivation of economic growth is expanding. What should be valued is the realization of energy production and consumption system balance.

NBD: How should high energy -consuming enterprises achieve economic and social benefits in parallel? Will high energy -consuming enterprises be eliminated in industrial manufacturing?

Chen Ling: It is still irreplaceable to realize some energy sources, such as thermal power. New energy still cannot fully meet the energy needs of production and life. For these traditional enterprises, including some traditional coal companies, it is necessary to both economic benefits and scientific and technological innovation. Taking the thermal power plant as an example, it has to discharge carbon. After all, this is the production model, and most of my country's thermal power industry has adopted clean coal -fired technology. It should be seen from the entire energy system. The new power system that can consume more renewable energy can be superimposed with the existing power system. The two are relative to the two. First, the new power system is gradually established, and then gradually increase its proportion. But it does not exclude the original system.

In fact, for the thermal power plant, the biggest problem is the depreciation of assets generated by the transformation. Once it is required to withdraw from the market in a long period of time, the cost is very high. It is not recommended to shut down such industries too quickly, but it should increase renewable energy. After all, energy consumption is increasing, and coal power should not be overwhelmed. This also involves some local incentives. If the carbon emission quota or carbon reduction quota is divided into every place, the local problem will be more significant.

Of course, in the context of digital comprehensive transformation, some companies will be gradually eliminated, but the market of traditional manufacturing is still complicated and diverse. In the long -term trend, advanced technology will gradually replace or eliminate backward production capacity, but the market is multi -level, which does not mean that the technology is poor, or companies that do not open digitized will definitely withdraw. Still find your own gap market. For example, the semiconductor products are the more thinner and higher the end of the line, and most of the high -precision products of the "stuck neck" are this category. On the other hand, low -end products also have markets, such as electron meters and hearing aid chips, low -end chips with thicker line width can meet demand. The future market should be a process of diversification and gradual evolution. Whether it is low digitalization or non -opening digital companies, they must find their own gap markets, carry out product innovation and business model innovation, and can survive and develop, not only relying on the technology itself.

NBD: The carbon emissions of digital enterprises themselves have also increased year by year. How to avoid getting out of high energy consumption and falling into the carbon emission anxiety of digital industries?

Chen Ling: This needs to admit that compared with traditional enterprises, the carbon emissions of high -tech digital enterprises are low, but from the perspective of year -on -year growth, traditional companies have declined, but Internet companies have risen. In other words, we gradually shifted from high energy -consuming industries to low energy consumption, but the carbon emissions of low energy consumption itself are increasing year by year, and the body volume after comprehensive transformation is not small.

However, this question needs to be systematically seen. For example, whether the type of energy used by an enterprise is clean energy; whether the enterprise has obtained these clean energy and the regional layout of these clean energy and the regional layout of key industries through a market mechanism. For example, some companies in Beijing have moved the data center to Hebei, not only for the consideration of land costs, the wind power resources in these areas are also richer.

Therefore, although the power consumption has increased, the use of renewable energy has also increased, and the operating cost of data centers decreases, which is also feasible. We do not have to label the industry with high energy consumption or high -carbon industry, nor can we just look at energy consumption. For high -tech enterprises, or to digital transformation, energy planning can be done before business development. It can balance the problem of high carbon emissions in the digital industry through the system layout.

(Cover pictures: Photo by internship reporter Yang Hui)

Daily Economic News

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